AI Generated Transcript
The opinions expressed on the ACB Media Network are those of the content providers and should not be viewed as an endorsement of any product or service, nor does it reflect the views of the American Council of the Blind, its elected officials, or its staff. Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of Basics with Bits. My name is Brad Snyder. I am the presentation coordinator for BITS, and I’d like to welcome you all to today’s presentation. This is June 8th, 2024. Before we get started, I’d like to remind everyone that Basics with BITS is, of course, sponsored by BITS. That’s Blind Information Technology Specialist. For more information about BITS or to become a member, you can visit our website at bits-acb.org. That’s B-I-T-S-acb.org. Here you can find out more about BITS. There’s a link to become a member. You can find out all about our dues, $20 a month, and there’s an opportunity to become a lifetime member. If you’re not ready to make that plunge yet, you can join our announcements only list where you can receive emails that let you know about Bits public presentations and some other Bits news that occasionally gets sent out. Our Bits chat, which is every Friday and Saturday night from beginning at 8 o’clock p.m. Eastern. You can get on that list by sending a blank email to bits-announce, that’s B-I-T-S-announce, and then add a plus sign and the word subscribe, followed by at groups.io. So that’s bits-announce+subscribe@groups.io, and that will get you on that announcements only list. So, with all those formalities out of the way, let me introduce our presenter for today. We have the chairperson of the BITS Education Committee, Debbie Armstrong. So, Debbie, tell what you’re going to cover today. Good afternoon. We’re going to do a quick sound check first. A, would one of you hosts tell me if you can hear me? Sound real good. Okay, excellent. Now we’re going to see if you hear JAWS. Do you guys hear JAWS? Not yet Did you start your screen share? I did You better check that box Sometimes I find it a little easier to just share computer sound and do a whole screen share. Less tabbing. It says it’s shut. Okay. You should be able to hear JAWS now. Not yet. Ah. Well, I can do this without sharing my screen Why don’t you try just share your sound. Turn off screen share. I am using a different profile. I’m using Zoe. I wonder if that makes a difference. I don’t know why it would. I would think a screen share with sound is still a screen share with sound. I’m going to do share option. No. What you do, go to shift tab and you’ll get up to those buttons at the top. And then right arrow to advance. You hear it? You’re on basics. Well, it thinks I’m sharing now, so do I need to do stop share first? Yeah, you’ll have to stop share first because you’re going to change how you’re doing it. Show participants list. Press tab to return to main content. Now, alt S again. Alt S. Then shift tab. It should take you to… And Alt-Tab. And what do you hear? Well, Alt-Tab will take me to another task. So, get aware? No, you have to do Alt-S to open the screen share. I did that. Okay. And do Shift-Tab once or twice. Maybe not. I’m on basic. Okay. Right arrow to advanced and hit space bar. I’m on advanced. Okay, now hit space bar. then no do tab forward sorry right right arrow to share computer sound you on it yes it’s checked now now hit enter no just change it to not checked what I can do this presentation without sharing my screen. Well, there should be nothing to check. I thought you just… There’s nothing to check. You go forward to share computer sound and hit enter. It should just start it. I have JAWS set also to split between my two sides of my headset. Do you think that makes a difference? Yes, it does make a difference. It does make a difference. You might want to turn that off. Yeah, and then split it after you have started to share. Or not split it at all because you’re sharing sound. Do you hear it now? Nope. Okay, we’re not going to waste time on this. I can do this presentation without sharing my screen. Okay. Okay? All right, because I’m talking today about file management, and a lot of what I want to talk to you all about is going to just be understanding file management. Now, when you work with an access technology specialist, they’re going to walk you through tab, tab, F6, F6, all of that. I’m not going to do that. I might have done a little of it when I was sharing my screen, but it doesn’t matter because you can get a free training from the JAWS folks on how to do this. So I will tell you how to get to that free training that will do all the stuff that I was doing with my shared screen. The time right now is six minutes after the hour. At 40 minutes after the hour, whatever I’m doing, I’m going to stop and I’m going to take questions. Because I think answering questions about file management in Windows is really important because people get really confused. So I have some notes here. In fact, one of the reasons I’m a little bit impaired today is because I usually use my Braille display with my computer. But today I have my Braille display showing my notes. So that was partly why it was a little harder for me to do my screen share, because I was having to rely on JAWS talking to me in one ear, and I’m a bit hearing impaired. So I figured you guys would be happier if I was looking at my notes. So anyway, I want to say something first about file management. When you’re getting a training on it from someone else, it can come across as very, very complicated. I was listening to both the Windows 10 and the Windows 11 JAWS free training that they have on using Windows Explorer. And I thought it was really complicated. I mean, they’re having you do all of these keystrokes. And how can you remember if you’re supposed to do shift or F6 or tab or shift tab or up tab or control tab? It got really complicated. What I would say is if you’re going through one of those trainings, number one, take your time and do just one keystroke at a time and try to focus on one concept at a time and don’t worry about trying to get it all. Okay, so let’s start out with the concept of folders and directories. Now in the old days they always called it a directory. Unix called it a directory. DOS, IBM DOS, MS DOS, even really old came out and later when Windows 95 came out, they started using icons to represent directories. And so the icon was a folder. So they started calling them folders. So if you hear someone talking to you about a folder or directory, remember that they are exactly the same thing. Let me interrupt for a minute and also tell you, I have some allergies today. So if I have a sneezing fit, I may mute for a minute, but I’m still here. just you don’t need to hear a sneezing fit. So folders and directories are the very same thing. Don’t let that bother you. A lot of times when someone’s explaining something to you and you’re a beginner and you hear a word that you don’t understand, the whole rest of the sentence kind of goes in one ear and out of the other ear. And that’s why I wanted to make it really clear that they are the same things. Now before Windows and before graphical user interfaces like Mac OS, anytime you accessed a file whether you copied it, opened it, moved it, or just even checked to see if it was there, you had to issue some long involved command. You had to type in a command to the computer. And that changed when we started to have graphical user interfaces. And what ended up happening, especially with Mac OS and Windows 95, is that everything became centralized around files. And on your Mac, excuse me, it’s called the Finder. And on Windows, it’s called Windows Explorer or Files Explorer. The names kind of have been switching around, but right now it’s File Explorer. And when you’re in File Explorer, you’re really looking at everything that’s there in Windows for you to access. And often when you’re being trained by an access technology specialist or even on your own, you’re working with applications. So you’re in Word and you learn how to open a file. Or you’re in Excel, you learn how to open a spreadsheet. Or, you know, even if you have an in-house program in your job, you’re typically running the program and then you’re opening a file. But that isn’t actually how Windows was originally designed for you to operate. Windows was designed for you to go through your file system and find a file and click on it. Or, in our case as screen reader users, press enter on it. And remember, this is independent of your screen reader now. What I’m talking about works fine with being sighted, using Magnifier, using NVDA, or using JAWS, or even using Narrator. So the whole idea behind Windows was that you could sort of navigate up, down, back, and forward through your file system. Find your spreadsheet, find your Word document, find your dedicated document that you need for your job, or find your pictures and click on them and open them in whatever application Windows thought was a good idea to open it. So, for example, a file of type DOC or DOCX would be open in Word. A file of Excel or XLS or XLSX would be open in Excel. A file with GRQ is just an extension or a file type I made up. But you might have a dedicated application that opens GRQ files. An MP3 file might be open with VLC Media Player or maybe Windows Media Player. or in my case, I opened MP3 files with Studio Recorder. So the idea was that you set up something called an association, and an association told Windows what application to associate with what file type. Now, how does Windows figure out what type of file you have? That is based on the file name extension. And so now it’s time to talk to you about the parts of a file name. A file name is actually a lot more than just the name of the file. So let us suppose you wrote a letter to your mom. Oh, it’s going to be Father’s Day, so let’s write a letter to our dad. So let’s call this file Letter to Dad. Okay, we’ve written a file called Letter to Dad. And when you see it in Windows, you might just see Letter to Dad, but it actually has a whole bunch of parts to it. First of all, it has a drive letter. Your drive is usually C colon, but maybe if you’re looking at a flash drive, it could be D colon or E colon, F colon, G colon. So that’s optional. You don’t usually have to type C colon letter to dad. But it’s there. It’s still there. It’s hidden, but it’s part of the file name. The next part of the file name is something that’s usually called a path. And a path is the list of directories or folders that you have to traverse to get to that file. So if I wrote a letter to dad and I just saved it and I didn’t pay attention to where I saved it, it would be in C colon backslash users backslash Armstrong D backslash documents backslash letters backslash letter to dad. period, D-O-C-X. Now, if I was in an old-fashioned operating system, my goodness, I may have to type their documents directory. So that’s how the operating system Windows knows how to get to a file. It starts with the drive letter, a colon, the starting directory, a backslash, the directory you have to go into, a backslash, the next directory you have to go into, a backslash, and it keeps going with these backslashes until you actually get to the name of the file. Now if you are in Windows Explorer, the way you would navigate among all of these things with backslashes is that you would arrow up and down through the tree view and you would right and left arrow to open and close directories. So for example, I was giving you the full path name of my letter to dad. So if I was starting at the C: drive, I would arrow to C, my PC, this PC, C, and then I would arrow down, down, down, until I got to users. And then I would right arrow and I would down arrow through all the users to Armstrong D, which is my username. This is my employer’s computer. So my employer makes everybody have their last name and first initial. Your username might be Joe or Janet or something easier than that. But I have to arrow down Armstrong D. And then I right arrow to get inside that directory. And then I down arrow some more to get to documents. And then I right arrow again and I’m in documents. And I down arrow some more to get to letters. And then I right arrow again in letters. and now I can finally arrow through the names of my files. Now, in Windows Explorer, if you press Tab or F6, you switch between the view, the tree view of all those folders, and the view of just the current folder. And in between that, you actually have a crazy menu that lets you filter by name or by date or by size. So if you get stuck in that menu, just press Escape and then hit tab again so that you get to actual view of your files. Alright, let me look here at my notes to see. I’ve gotten off on a tangent here. So suppose you really wanted to know what that whole path name was. You could actually set up the path name to be in your title bar. So if you did insert T in Windows, in NVDA, or in JAWS, or caps lock T, and it read you the title bar it could actually read you that entire path by default it does not do that and in a little bit I’ll tell you how to change your file explorer choices but let me say a few words here about the concept of libraries now I’ve talked to you about folders things are inside folders your hard disk has a folder called users and users has a list of users on your system. Under your user you have a folder called documents and under documents you might create other folders. But when Windows 7 came along, they decided, “Oh, users are so confused by folders, so we’re going to create libraries.” And what libraries are is a way of taking files from a bunch of different folders and putting them in one place. Now, it doesn’t really put them in one place. It just displays their names to you in one place. And I have to say that some access technology specialists love to train users on libraries, and some don’t. And I think libraries are more confusing than anything else. For sighted people, libraries can be really great. Because let’s suppose you have a project, and it’s got spreadsheets, and it’s got documents, and it’s got blueprints, and it’s got pictures, and it’s got reports. Well, and maybe you have them scattered all over in different places, like the spreadsheets are under spreadsheets, and the documents are under documents, and the pictures are under pictures, and the blueprints are in a special architecture application. Okay, so you can create a library and put all that stuff in one place, and the library would be the name of the project. And so I think visually that’s really nifty. And I work with sighted learning disabled students, and so I will often show them how to use libraries. I personally think that as a screen reader user, libraries are just really confusing. Because now you’ve got to deal with folders and libraries, and you’re not sure where you are. But like I said, some access technology specialists really do teach it, and they do a really good job of it. So if it’s something you want to learn, look around, especially if you have lots of projects that have many different kinds of files. Look around for someone who can teach you how to use libraries. Now, I jumped over something in my notes I really wanted to talk about. I hit the wrong button. And that is I was telling you all about path names and navigating paths in File Explorer. And by the way, it’s very similar doing this in the Mac Finder. If you’re using the Mac Finder, you can also arrow around between up and down and right and left to get through the different folders and find things that are under folders that are under folders, directories and subdirectories, folders and subfolders. But I wanted to talk to you a little bit about document types. Now, Windows in particular is unable to deal with a file name that does not have an extension that tells it what to do. So, for example, I told you that a spreadsheet might be userdata.xl, SX the SLSX file extension or docx file extension is just at the end of the file name it’s separated from the file name by period but it is a very important component of a file because it tells Windows what to do with the file so if I have an mp3 file for example great song dot mp3 and when I press enter on it windows is going to open it with whatever application it thinks is a good idea to open it with but if you don’t want to open that mp3 file with that application you can hit the applications key when you’re focused on that file or shift F10 and you get something called a context menu and if you’re sighted you get that context menu by right-clicking your mouse and if you arrow down to that through that context menu the first thing you’ll get is open but if you keep going you get to open with and open with if you press enter on that will give you a list of applications that Windows thinks would be good idea to open that file so say the file was opening with Groove Music which I think was the default Windows 10 and the Groove Music is not the world’s most accessible thing right and you wanted to open it instead with VLC media player or Winamp what you would do is hit the applications key or shift F10 or right click on it arrow down to open with and press enter and then you would have to a list of applications and hopefully VLC media player would be in there and you would press enter on that and also sometimes you see a button that says just once or always and if you choose just once it’s only going to open at that one time with VLC media player but the next time it will open it with Groove Music again but if you pick always then it will change what I talked to you before as the association it will change the association So now the file will, all MP3 files will be associated with Windows Media Player. So that’s why we need file name extensions because they tell Windows what, they tell Windows what to do with the file. Let’s see, so I’ve talked to you about paths. I’ve talked to you about file types. say a little bit about where things are on Windows by default. So what was really interesting is when Windows was designed, Microsoft thought that the desktop should be sort of the root of all things. And that’s because if you minimize everything, whether you do it with your mouse or you do it with Windows M or you do it with Windows D, the Windows desktop takes up the whole screen. And so if you’re a sighted person, you can grab files and drag them onto the desktop. You can grab programs and drag shortcuts onto the desktop. You can put everything on your desktop, and it’s really easy. You know right where it is. You can see it. And when I work with sighted people who are not very good with their computer, they will have hundreds of things on their desktop, and it’s a giant mess. But the idea was supposed to be to make it easy for you. But something you may not know is that the actual path to your desktop is C colon backslash users backslash your username backslash desktop. And desktop has a capital T. So it’s not actually at the root position on your hard drive. It’s not in C colon backslash. It’s in, say your name is Joe. C colon backslash users backslash Joe backslash desktop. So a lot of your other stuff is not actually on your desktop. The desktop is just something that shows up when you minimize all your other windows. For example, all of your programs are actually in either C colon backslash program files or c:Files x86 . And the reason your files may be in one of two places depends on if they’re 32-bit or 64-bit programs. Now the reason this matters is sometimes when you open something, a file in an application, you’ll find you’re in the middle of your Program Files directory and you’re not in your Documents directory, your user directory. You’re off somewhere else. And that’s why it’s good to know that your program files are separate from your user files. The other thing, sometimes it’s really like I was trying to find the NVDA documentation to send it to somebody and I was using JAWS. And so what I had to do was navigate to program files, left print x86. And I did this using my arrow keys in Windows Explorer. And then I went to NVDA. I found that. Okay. So then I navigated down and I found documentation. And then I navigated into documentation. Remember, I’m doing my right arrow and userguide.html. And that’s how I was able to locate the NVDA documentation because it’s not stored in my user directory. It’s stored in the program directory. All right. So I’ve told you before where programs are located. I’ve told you that users are under users, and there’s always a default user, and that is just a directory that’s used when you create a new user. it’ll populate it with all of that data. So you usually don’t have to mess with that. And usually you’re the only user on your system, but your username is whatever was created by the person who set up Windows, whether it was you, whether it was your nephew, or your IT specialist. So you kind of get stuck with that username. You know, like I’m stuck with Armstrong D. I made a shortcut to my user directory called Debbie, because I didn’t want to keep typing Armstrong D. so on my desktop I have a shortcut called Debbie that takes me right there okay I’ve told you your documents directory is under your username it used to be in the old days that it was called my documents so you also find them my documents directory there that you can’t open and the purpose of that is if you have some older program that’s looking for my documents it can cope with it I’m gonna have a sneezing fit so we’re gonna just go on mute for one second I love allergies they’re so fun let me look at the time okay good I have lots of time so I talked to you about documents under documents now you pretty much have directories or folders that were set up by whatever application you use for example I use Overdrive media console so it has created a directory under there called my media I use Adobe digital edition so it has a directory called my digital editions I use Kindle and so my Kindle content is a directory that’s under under my under the documents directory if you’re looking for your music that used to be under your documents directory but now it’s separate so under your your username is a directory called Music and there’s also a directory called Pictures and in some versions of Windows there’s a directory called Videos. You can always create a new directory though. There’s a couple of ways, I’ve talked to you about Windows Explorer, but there’s actually a couple of ways you can get to it. You can find this PC on my desktop if your desktop was properly set up to have this PC, but if not, you don’t have to panic, you can just Hold down the Windows key and hit E, E for Explore, and you’re always in Windows Explorer. And you can do this navigation. If you would like more help learning how to navigate Windows Explorer, I think the best thing to do is check out the Freedom Scientific training, and that’s http://www.freedomscientific.com slash training, and look for the webinars on demand. and then look for the webinars on using Windows 10 or Windows 11 and using Windows Explorer. And even though those are JAWS-specific, if you use NVDA, they’ll be very helpful, or if you use Navigator when you’re on Magnifier. If you’re using Magnifier, you’re always looking at the window kind of through a soda straw, so you’re not always seeing the entire screen. And learning the keystrokes to navigate Windows Explorer and then bring your magnification window to where you need to see. So even if you don’t use a screen reader and you just use magnification, listening to and practicing the keystrokes in that JAWS training, those are keystrokes, Windows keystrokes, can be very, very helpful for you. I want to say a couple of things about using thumb drives. If you plug in one of those little thumb drives, it will show up in Windows Explorer, but you need to give it a minute or two because sometimes it has to install special software called Drivers to access that thumb drive. So, like, if you’re at a friend’s computer or you’re at school and you’ve got a school computer and you want to copy some stuff from your hard disk to that flash drive, thumb drive, same thing, you’re going to plug the puppy in. You’re going to wait a minute. It may automatically pop up, but a lot of virus protection software prevents that from happening. so no panics if it doesn’t pop up just give it a second then do Windows E you might hear a sound too saying it’s been plugged in depends on how your windows was set up so you do your Windows E and now you’ll see not only is your C Drive there but there is also an E Drive or D Drive or H Drive with your thumb drive and your thumb drive may or may not have been given a label giving it a label is very very easy if you want to do it yourself so you’ll find your thumb drive and you’ll open it just simply by pressing enter on it and then you’re in another tree view looking at that thumb drive and you can then tab or f6 until you get to the view of the files on the thumb drive or you can stay in that tree view for the various folders but when you’re there you can just as easily move files between your computer and the thumb drive as you could between different folders on your computer. Oh, and I have a note here. I was going to say something about drag and drop because I think that’s something a lot of people don’t realize. It’s really easy to do. I don’t know if you’ve ever been on a website and they say to upload a file, like your profile picture is really common. They’ll say drag a file here and you’re like oh well you know I kind of know how to drag and drop on my screen reader that’s really hard and I’m not sure I’m gonna get it to work. Well it’s actually really easy. You’re gonna go into your so let’s suppose you’re supposed to be uploading a profile picture. So you’re gonna go onto your hard drive with Windows E find your pictures folder, find the picture you want to Drag and drop except all you’re going to do is ctrl C like copying it So as if you were going to copy it to another folder Then you’re going to go back to the website where it says drag and drop go to the place where it says drag and drop Here you’re going to press enter on that and you’re going to get something called a browse dialog Which looks just like the regular open file doc Dialogue you see in word or in any other application and then you’re going to tab over to where the file name it’s prompting you for a file name and you’re going to press ctrl V ctrl V for paste and it’s actually going to drop the name of the file into the file name box and then you can press the open button or whatever the okay button is for closing that dialog and it will have quote dragged and dropped the file and this works everywhere I’ve seen where you have to upload a profile picture or upload your homework to a website. A lot of classroom websites, they want you to drag your homework and drop it somewhere. And I have never found a place where that doesn’t work. Though sometimes it can be a little tricky to find the place where you’re supposed to drag and drop. Okay, I’ve only got a few more minutes. I’ve got a couple other things I do want to cover. And maybe it’s good I couldn’t share my screen because now I can talk about more not stop to demonstrate it in windows if you want to sort the files in a particular folder you can keep tabbing until you actually get to and this used to not be in tab order used to have to find it on the ribbon but now it’s it’s part of the actual Explorer view if you want to sort files if you want to see files by large icons or details those are two radio buttons you can tap between and when you tap to details that means everything connected with a file is showing on one line whereas if you’re using large icons you have to move between the files using the right left up and down arrows and if you’re using details as your view then you’re only up and down arrowing through the list of files. So that used to be sort of a pain to change but now all you have to do is tap over to the two radio buttons that are large icons or detail view. If you want to actually change a lot of the properties of File Explorer because you don’t like the way it’s working, Windows Explorer, Files Explorer, same thing, you can run control panel so the way I usually do it is I I hit the Windows key for search I type in control panel it pulls up control panel and control panel was around long before Windows settings so it has a lot of stuff in it that are not in the Windows settings and then under there I just type F and I get to file explorer settings and I press enter and there’s several it’s a multi tab dialogue. There are several tabs in there and one of them is advanced and if you go in there it’s a tree view of all sorts of options that you can change. So you can configure file explorer for example to display the path of the title bar or to do lots of things that you may not have realized are possible. So that is also something to experiment with. What else can I tell you? I think I’m at the end of my notes. So I wasn’t going to take questions until 40 minutes after the hour, but I’m a little bit early. So I think I’m ready for questions if people want to start raising their hand. Hands. We have phone number 317. Someone in Indianapolis, I bet. And they’re still muted And that’s the only end we have right now Finally, it took me that… I have about four questions. Can you give us some… This is really the last two. All right? A friend of mine needs to know how to read… What’s the JAWS keystroke for reading Adobe documents? You know, insert spacebar and something. He needs that desperately. OK, wait a minute. Wait a minute, wait a minute. So they want to… Do they want to run OCR on the document? Do they want to recognize it? They just want to OCR and read an Adobe document. Okay, so they’re going to find the document in their file explorer. They’re going to do insert space, which is the layered keystroke. They’re going to do O for OCR, and then they’re going to do F for file, and it will start OCRing the file that they’re pointing to. Thank you. That’s what I thought. Can you give us some tips at the end or sometime, you know, or somebody can come up with the six things you need to know that will make life wonderful in Windows 11? The six things you need to know? You know, sometime and do that. I would have to think about it. So that when we go to the library and we start learning, you know, put on headphones, we can start working with this, those of us who are still in tents. Well, I would say if you’re going to a library and you’re going to work with Windows on a library computer, is that what you’re talking about? Right. What I would do is I would go to the Freedom Scientific training page. I would pull up one of the webinars on demand that looks pretty easy, and I would begin listening to that, and I would practice some of those things. I’ve done webinars. I haven’t found them easy at all. where do you have trouble they’re just throwing the keystrokes at you five seconds after a time reading fast some of them you can’t hear I would love someone to create ten great things you know fast great cool things to use in 11 whatever they are they don’t even have to be people can have different lists but make that available Yeah, yeah, I mean it’s a really good idea. It’s not something I can do in this moment’s call No, I don’t expect you to but I mean down the road It is a really good idea. You know, which what people really need is a Set of exercises. I know that I would apartment for the blind used to do all of these Exercises that people could do with their computer press this key will hear this and they don’t do that anymore And I thought that was really useful And the other thing, if you don’t mind, I’m not being critical. When you put out the Zoom information for people using phones, put them in separate lines, like the 346, then the next, the line below that, and the next line below that. Email ACB community and tell them that. Yep. I’m just a facilitator. Okay. You know, it’s hard to do. This is great. First time. I love it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next, you have Bell Mills. And I’m listening. And she’s muted. Bell, if we could come back to you. Next, we have Hazel. Show participants list. Press tab to return to main meeting content. I’m still here. Yeah, so there’s only two hands we have. Belle and Hazel. I was fooling around with my screen share for a minute just to see if I could get it to work. I think that because I split my audio before I started screen sharing, that was my problem. Yes, I agree. Yeah, so I hadn’t realized that would be a problem. Let me look at my time here. I have 42. Yeah, I have 42 as well. So keep watching for hands. I am going to make a couple comments about using Windows Explorer again. I’m actually going to go into it just so I know what I’m talking about. Even though you can’t hear my screen, I just want to make sure that I’m saying things correctly. So when I’m looking at my computer right now, and I go into this PC, which is the same thing as doing Windows E. Okay, hold on for me just a second, please. Debra’s going to present and then we’ll take hands. Okay. Oh, no, I can be interrupted. I can be interrupted. All right. Go ahead, Bill. Okay. I’m so sorry. I didn’t have the got it going. So I wanted to know. Pardon me. I didn’t want Jaws to interrupt. That’s okay. I’ve done that before myself. So I want to know about uploading. When I hear the word upload, I do what you tell me to do, follow the instructions that you gave us, which I’m going to have to go and take notes when we get the recording or I get the recording. So let’s start and find out where you’re trying to upload from. Well, I guess, you know, when somebody says or instructs, say in an email to upload. Are you talking about a website? Yes. Okay, so you’re on a website and it’s asking you to upload something. Okay, now ask your question because I want to know where you were being asked to upload. Well, I can’t, right now I can’t think of the sites, you know, but I just. But it’s a website. But it’s a website. That’s good enough. Okay. Yeah. And your question is? I want to know whether that was, whether I could drag, do the, follow the instructions that you gave us. Is that what uploading means? That’s right. Upload means send the file out from your computer up to somewhere else. And download means grab the file from somewhere else down to your computer. So think of down as coming from the sky down in your computer, and up as going out of your computer and up to the big web universe, right? Right. So I do more downloading than anything. Right. Actually, when you download, it goes into a folder called Downloads, which is in your user directory. Right. Yes, that’s right. Yeah. Okay, I was just wanting to make sure because when I hear upload, I’m going, what is that? It’s telling you to get something off of your computer and move it up to the web. Okay. Thanks. do we have other questions yes we still have hazel with the hand up go ahead hazel oh don’t forget to got it i think i’m unmuted now i yes we can hear you uh i’m wondering i having to go you know through all the files you know the window search used to be better at it than it is now but you can certainly try in the search box typing the name of the file or part of the name and see if it finds it and if it opens it and you’re in Excel you want to do file save as and then you can look at the path name and in JAWS that’s insert tab it will always tell you the path name, but in NVDA you just have to arrow over to the folder and figure out what folder it’s in. Tab over to the folder. I have several files with a similar name, it’s just that they’re slightly different. And so when I found out that it was putting it, it seemed like I didn’t know where. I started using the save as, you know, got into the directory I wanted to be in and started using save as and overwriting while changing the name on other files using the save as and then emptying out the file and moving the content which is kind of a long way around. You know, but you still have this one Excel file you can’t find. Find it. Yeah, well, I know a command line way to do it. But that’s a little bit advanced if you if you are brave and want to type in a command line. using a PowerShell? Well, or just using CMD. So you could do, you could run CMD, so Windows R and type CMD and press enter, and now you’re at a command line. Right. And you could do cd backslash and press enter, and you’d be at your root directory. And then you would do dir space and whatever part of the file you remember, like data, star, period, star, and then space and then slash B for bear, so it only shows you the file names, and then slash S for search everything, and then press enter. And then you’d sit there forever, and then it would list all of the files that are like that. So if I type dir data star dot star slash b slash s and press enter, it would show me, like, all the files that begin with the word data. I see. I’ll do that. Okay. Thank you. Stephen, please. And after, Stephen, there you go. Okay, I think I’m ready. You are ready. Yeah, just. All right. So a suggestion for the difficulty with the online webinars that they have at Vispero. What I usually do is I will send an email to their training department. and ask them to send me the document of keyboard commands related to the webinar. And so that’s just training at thisbarrow.com. And they’re really good about that. They do have handouts for all of those. And so I ask that via email. I ask for that. Yeah, and the thing is when you’re listening to the webinar, you really should be thinking about the concepts and not worrying about the keystrokes. Listen to the webinar, figure out what they’re doing, why they’re doing it, how they’re doing it, and don’t try to memorize those keystrokes. And then later, you can go ahead and get a list of keystrokes. Like if, let’s suppose I was learning, well, I was learning the Mac, okay? And so I’m not very good with the Mac, right? So I listened to a lot of webinars on the Mac, but I didn’t try to remember the keystrokes. And then I used Google, and I looked for Mac Finder keyboard shortcuts. and then I looked and read the website for the Mac finder keyboard shortcuts and that’s how I learned how to use the Mac because I don’t have a Mac. So when I get access to a Mac, then I’ve got my little cheat sheet of keyboard shortcuts I can look at. So I listen to all these webinars without trying to learn the keystrokes. The idea being I can learn these concepts and then I’ll be just look up the key strokes on the web and you know, save them somewhere. Other questions? Deb, please. Yeah, I have a question about quick access. So when I do control for Windows E, I’m on Windows 10, and quick access comes up. And when you’re describing using the right and left arrow, of course it doesn’t work in quick access. You have to do enter sometimes in tab. And anyway, it’s not consistent. Is it? And different Windows, well, different versions of Windows are different, but if you press F6 repeatedly, you eventually get to just the list of files that are in that current folder. Right, but there is a setting to turn the quick access off. Would you recommend that for people? Yes, I would turn it off. I don’t particularly like it. That’s my question. Thank you. And I would go into file options in control panel and just start turning things off you don’t want. Anything else you would turn off? Well, I turn on a lot of stuff. Like I turn on the, you know, by default, it doesn’t actually show you the file name extensions, and I turn that on, and I turn on show the path in the title bar, and I turn on that will let me access system directories, but I’m a tech user, so I want to see all that stuff. So, I mean, you just basically poke around there and decide what you want to turn on. You can always turn it off later. You know, one thing I like to do if I have a dialog box that has oodles of settings and I’m turning this feature off, I’m turning this feature on. And then I date the recording. I say, okay, it was June 8th, and I changed 12 settings. And then later, like if something is screwed up and I’m like, oh, man, what did I turn on? I can go back to that recording I made and actually hear myself telling JAWS or NVIDIA or whatever to check or uncheck a particular box. Thank you. That’s great. And we’re clear, Deb. Okay. How much time? 52. Okay, well, I’m going to just quickly talk a little bit about what happens when I’m at my desktop and I do Windows E. The first thing I see is local disk, left paren, C, right paren. And if I down arrow, I see USB drive, E colon. And if I down arrow, I see brilliant BI because that’s my Braille display. So let’s go back up to local disk. I told you if I up and down arrow, that’s what I see. But if I right and left arrow, I see all the properties for that drive. So when I’m at local disk, if I do right arrow, the first thing I see is type, and that’s local disk. But if it was a file, the type might say Word document or whatever. And if I right arrow, it shows me the size. And the size of my disk is 475 gigabytes. And if I right arrow, it says free space, and it’s telling me I have 171 gigabytes free, which is pretty good because I cleaned up my hard disk. I had too much junk on it. So remember, if you’re up and down arrowing, you’re actually looking at the folders. And if you’re right arrowing and left arrowing, you look at the properties, like the size and the type of that folder. And you can also set the view so it shows you a lot more there if you wanted. but I don’t have a lot more because I have a Braille display and I don’t I want to see all that on one line You know, I don’t want to see too much stuff. Now if I pressed f6 I Would go to where it says name split button This is a menu that lets you filter by various properties and I don’t use that menu very much. So I hit f6 again and Now I’m in a view mode between details and large icons and I can right and left arrow to choose between those area buttons. And if I hit F6 again, I’m finally in the list box where I can actually look at the actual files that are in a particular folder. So it does take several presses of F6 to get between your tree view with your folders and your actual list of files. So let me look at my time again. Well, we’ve got five more minutes. Are there any other calls for questions? I want to be sure I can answer as many as possible. Yeah, me. Yeah, I was looking to see if we had nobody who had not spoken before. Yes, go ahead, please. Go ahead, 317. Hello, Indianapolis. Can you tell me your name, please? Pat. Thank you. CMD, slowly. Starting with CMD. Okay. So you’re going to do Windows R for run. And when you do Windows R, you’re actually entering a command in the Windows, so it has to be very precise. But you’re calling up something called the command line interpreter there, so you type CMD and press enter. And now you’re at a Windows command line, so you’re not in the graphical user interface anymore. You’re at the Windows command line, right? Just like in the old days when you used DOS. You’re not in a graphical environment. You’re typing commands into Windows. So from there, you’re going to type cd backslash. So cd means change directory, and backslash means go to the root directory of your hard drive. And like I told the other person, this is kind of technical. So you’re going to press enter. And then it’s going to say C colon backslash greater than. You’re at your root directory. And then you’re going to type DIR space, whatever file name you want to give it. And I use data star dot star because I was emulating. I didn’t really know exactly the name of the file. Then you’re going to press space. You’re going to do slash S, which means search everything, and space slash B, which means bear. Just show me the names of the files. Don’t show me all the dates and times and other clutter. And then you’re going to press enter. And it’s going to give you like a really long list. But like I said, that’s somewhat technical, and that’s kind of confusing if you’ve never used the command line before. We’re clear. Have you heard of a program called Everything? I’ve heard of it, but I’ve never used it. It is a file search program that you can use in Windows. You can just type in the name of the file or file extensions, and it will find all the files on your computer that meet those criteria. That’s probably better than me geeking out, huh? I mean, I love the geeking out. I have no issues with that. I think that’s cool. But everything works really well. Back in the DOS days, I used a program called Electrofine, and I remember how much I loved that. This sounds great. You guys need to all download everything. It’s a free program, and you can find it on Ninite, on N-I-N-I-T-E dot com, and it’s called everything. Oh, it’s on Ninite. Oh, okay. I’ll have to look. Yeah, Ninite’s another really wonderful tool. We should do a presentation on that sometime. Yes, we should. I absolutely agree. All right. Well, I’m done, unless we have other questions. It’s almost time for us to say goodbye. We’re clear. All right. Well, I guess we’ll say goodbye then. Well, before we go, let me remind everybody we will be back in two weeks on June 22nd. Then there are a couple of weeks. We’ll, before we get back, the next week is the fifth weekend in June. And then the second Saturday in July is right after convention. So we’re taking that one off. So we will be back. It’ll be a while, a little bit over a month. On July 27th is the fourth Saturday in July, and we should be back then. Thank you. Thank you.